Director Andrew Droz Palermo is a familiar name in the independent film world. While his documentary Rich Hill won the documentary category at Sundance, he is also well known for being the cinematographer on various indie films like A Teacher and You’re Next. His feature film debut was this year’s One & Two, currently in limited release and available on VOD, which premiered at Berlin before hitting SXSW in March.
The film follows a secluded family living on a farm. The name itself refers to the siblings, played by Kiernan Shipka (Mad Men) and Timothee Chalamet, who hold a powerful ability that their father rails against. When their mother is taken from them the family dynamic crumbles and we learn how strong the sibling bond truly is. It’s a quiet, slow churning film that manages to be both haunting and frustrating in equal measures.
While at SXSW earlier this year I had a chance to sit down with Palermo to talk about making his feature film debut, whether he submitted to Sundance again, and even what it was like to work with Kiernan Shipka. But we also touch on what it was like for a cinematographer to choose another cinematographer and he explains how there isn’t a huge camaraderie that occurs and it can be a bit odd. Additionally, we touch on the unique title, what it was like to move from a documentary to a narrative, and even one of my lingering questions about the sound design that is a minor spoiler at the end. Enjoy the full conversation below.
The Film Stage: So, first off, let’s talk about the name. One & Two. And it uses an ampersand. It’s pretty unique but also obvious. What kind of feedback did you get from your financiers? Was there a lot of push and pull?
Andrew Droz Palermo: You know, really, it was me doing most of the pushing and pulling. It was the first title we had and it’s never changed. Originally that was their names. There was a first and second child and they didn’t have names. It was a birth order thing but also it was like Romeo and Juliet. Jack and Jill. It was this star-crossed lovers thing that I really liked. But I started getting cold feet about it after production.
I was saying, “This is a terrible title for us. We’re never going to be able to search it, you can’t hashtag it, and all of these ideas on the business front.” And they were just not having it. They didn’t want to change it. So yeah, we didn’t change it. But we’ll see if a distributor comes on and wants to change it because I’ll totally entertain it because I’m not wild about it. [Laughs] It’s really crazy though. If you go on Instagram and you search “one & two” you get all sorts of parents that hashtag their first and second child. It kind of re-sold it to me recently.
One other thing I think is really interesting about this film is that one of the young stars is Kiernan Shipka, who of course stars as Sally Draper in Mad Men. I’m curious about the conversations you had with her because I don’t know how you feel about Mad Men, but I think it is a wonderful show and I’m sure she is used to a certain level of writing and direction that is probably way above par. So could you get a sense of that from her?
So this is, I think, her first big feature. I had known her from the show and we just reached out to her. She and I talked and got along really well and I thought she knew what I was after. I knew she was capable from the show. But it’s interesting because she is so humble. She doesn’t seem to have any ill feelings about what she does and she loves it. I think a lot of that comes from that she has really good parents that are involved in her life and care about her. They spend a lot of time with her. They were on set. They were great to hang out with. They were part of the crew.
Your original breakout was with Rich Hill, a documentary that played at Sundance. A narrative feature is very different in that for a documentary you have almost two choices without painting it too black and white. One, you can guide the documentary yourself whether it be your voice or your own narrative idea. Or you can let the subjects guide the film and what it ultimately revolves around. For making a feature, how much did you embrace the ability to have absolute control? I mean you’re making small decisions all the time, right?
Well, it was nice because you get a lot more freedom. Rich Hill was a unique thing in that we wanted the boys to feel like they had authorial control. But of course, Tracy [Droz Tragos], my co-director, and I are controlling it all. In the end in the edit room we’re making it. But we wanted to make it feel like it was theirs. That they filmed it and it was their voice. I do think it’s successful in that, for me at least. But yeah, with a doc you just have this mass of footage that becomes a blob of clay. You work it. With a narrative film, at least with this one, we had what we had. We had my guide, which was the script, but then it became something different. Many films do the same. They go through many different lives as you’re making it. It becomes a different thing. It even warps again in the edit.
How many days did you shoot?
28 days.
That’s a pretty good length.
It’s nice. There were some big setpieces in the film like the final climax and such.
One thing I’m very curious about is the fact that you’re a cinematographer. So choosing another has to be weird. What was that process like? Did it take a while?
It did. You know, it’s weird because as a cinematographer you don’t get to know a lot of others. You’re always working and you don’t know anyone else. At the festivals cinematographers don’t often have the time. So it was nice to get to talk with a lot of others. But Autumn [Durald] was just very sensitive to the material and had shot a lot of music videos I enjoyed.
And is she a camera operator as well?
Yeah. Like me, I prefer to operate as well. So she had a great energy and we collaborated well. We were able to feed off of each other. It helped me relinquish control while we were shooting. I didn’t feel like I needed to be a DP.
Getting a bit deeper, did you have to tweak anything colorwise? I noticed you have a lot of earth tones. Of course, you surround the cast with earth tones as well. But I’m just curious.
No, not really. We are both very sensitive about greens. We both have our preferences and I don’t like them to go very lime. I don’t want them vibrant. But the main tweaks were in the black levels because a lot of the film takes place at night. Things like how hot were we going to have our windows which were illuminated by moonlight and such. In the country it really is quite bright.
Your last film, the documentary Rich Hill, won the Sundance documentary category. But this didn’t play at Sundance. So did you submit?
So the film is supported by the Sundance Institute. They gave us a small grant to help us and helped in the screenwriting stage and even in casting. We shot in July and August and it was very, very tight. We did submit and we talked about it, but the film wasn’t really ready. So we went to Berlin for the Berlin Film Festival instead which is just a month, but it was the month that we needed.
[Note: Minor spoilers ahead.]
There is a noise when they disappear and then reappear. I’m curious, in the reality of the film, can they actually hear that noise? Are they aware of the noise that they are making? Or is that just for the audience’s benefit?
My feeling was that yes, they could. It was audible. But also it’s just so important to sell the visual trick on just a technical level. Without sound, it just doesn’t work. It doesn’t feel right. It’s quiet and you pay attention to the visual too much. I love the visual effects work we achieved, but this just really helps sell it. It’s got some body to it and some undertones. But we tried to keep it quiet enough so that they could sneak out. It wouldn’t be audible across the house. That sound was largely done by Pete Horner at Skywalker Sound and Zach Martin, who worked a lot on the film. He added this tearing through the air sound when they would arrive that I really liked.
One & Two is now in limited release and available on VOD.